Be Careful Who You Lend Your Car To - The Podcast

"SteveLehto" (stevelehto)
05/05/2016 at 09:00 • Filed to: None

Some guy wants to borrow your car? Tell him what I do: “No.” Or at least, before you say Yes , you need to consider a few things. As I explain in this week’s podcast.

I know many of you think I am paranoid but I am just an attorney. And we tend to be a bit on the careful side. So, before you lend your car to someone, you need to know all the ramifications. (I have !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! before, in case you want to read about this rather than hear or watch it.)

Will you be liable for the harm they cause when they get in an accident in your car? Probably. You’re OK with that? No problem - just be aware of it.

How about if they go out and commit a crime with it? You didn’t know your co-worker was planning on picking up a hooker with your car during his lunch break? It might not matter: you need to go get your car out of the impound lot. If you can.

And, of course, they may not even drive or park it carefully. I know people I won’t let RIDE in my car. Drive it? Dream on. Here’s the audio:

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And the video:

The pic at the top was taken in a hotel parking lot near the winged car convention in Alabama, October 2015. If that was my car? No, you could not borrow it. But thanks for asking.

Follow me on Twitter: !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!!

Hear my podcast on iTunes: !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!!

Steve Lehto has been practicing law for 24 years, almost exclusively in consumer protection and !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! He wrote !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! and !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! .

This website may supply general information about the law but it is for informational purposes only. This does not create an attorney-client relationship and is not meant to constitute legal advice, so the good news is we’re not billing you by the hour for reading this. The bad news is that you shouldn’t act upon any of the information without consulting a qualified professional attorney who will, probably, bill you by the hour.

DISCUSSION (100)

jimz > SteveLehto
05/05/2016 at 09:04

of course, you can tell your kid not to lend out his/her car until you’re blue in the face, but there’s always “it was just one time!”

BigBlock440 > SteveLehto
05/05/2016 at 09:15

One advantage to driving beaters, it was always more convenient for me to just give someone a ride rather than try to explain the little nuances or trust someone to leave enough space to account for the leaky master cylinder you didn’t get around to replacing yet.

SteveLehto > BigBlock440
05/05/2016 at 09:16

That and a clutch.

Thanks!

litespud > SteveLehto
05/05/2016 at 09:17

Stick shift - makes me Teflon when it comes to being asked to lend my car

Nooly > SteveLehto
05/05/2016 at 09:17

I have a car trailer that often times friends or relatives want to borrow. I tell them all that I don’t lend my trailers, but I’ll be more than happy to hook my truck up and go on a road trip with you if you buy the fuel. I’m not a fan of being liable for other peoples’ tow rigs, or for how they plan to strap down whatever it is that they’re hauling.

SteveLehto > Nooly
05/05/2016 at 09:18

I hadn’t even thought about trailers.

Thanks for the note!

Crapflinger > SteveLehto
05/05/2016 at 09:19

i used to work at a hospital and I worked with this guy who turned out to be a crackhead. great guy otherwise though. for 3 weeks out of the month he was the best worker ever, came in early left late, always helped everyone out. the other one week.....completely missing. just gone. I mean, a really nice guy. we got to be pretty good friends despite his "habit". I let him borrow my car once.....didn't see it for 4 days. got it back when the cops picked him up in it. the car was still in great condition, exactly ZERO things missing from it (after market head unit, school books, some other ancillary stuff), in fact he even LEFT more stuff in it. there was some laundry detergent, a new bowling ball, and a j geils band record in the back seat.

SteveLehto > Crapflinger
05/05/2016 at 09:22

You’re lucky that didn’t cost you. I’ve heard of guys whose cars got impounded while friends were out drinking and driving etc in a borrowed car.

Thanks for the note.

jimz > SteveLehto
05/05/2016 at 09:23

hey, unrelated question which I thought of after my app cycled back to an older cast of yours- if you’re buying a car and the sales agreement contains “binding arbitration” language, what’s a legally solid way to reject that clause, assuming they don’t have an alternate form of the document?

Mark > SteveLehto
05/05/2016 at 09:27

I have a simple answer to someone that wants to borrow my car. NO! I’ll drive someone before I hand over the keys.

jeff4066 > SteveLehto
05/05/2016 at 09:27

Yep. This. And especially motorcycles. When the guy parks in one of those leftover end spaces that’s not a legal parking space. And gets backed into. And a guy who knows nothing about what happened gets an insurance claim, and a ticket, and a towed bike. Yep.

HamburgerHusky > SteveLehto
05/05/2016 at 09:28

I let a girlfriend borrow my jeep a few years ago, and when I got it back I was cleaning it out to sell it, and she had underwear from her period balled up in the glove box. It was horrific.

GoCubbies2016xxx > Crapflinger
05/05/2016 at 09:28

But did he steal your Creedence tape?

pandesal > SteveLehto
05/05/2016 at 09:28

“Will you be liable for the harm they cause when they get in an accident in your car? Probably”

Then, would the owner be liable for accidents caused by valet joyrides?

stayingclassy > SteveLehto
05/05/2016 at 09:29

I had a mechanic take my truck to be repaired, I called him 3 days into it, all was going to schedule. then 2 days after that, his sister calls.

“why did you give him your truck!?”

me: - “WTF?”

“don’t you know he is an alcoholic? he got picked up by the cop, in your truck, 2 am, almost asleep at the wheel...”

long story short. I got the truck back, no cost. ( she paid the impound).

all documents were lost, he was in the slammer and I had no desire to continue to speak with him. so it cost me recovering all the car’s papers, but yes, close one.

SmugAardvark > SteveLehto
05/05/2016 at 09:29

I’ve let friends borrow my cars before, but only under very strict circumstances.

1. You have to be a very close friend. As in, you should know my last name, the month of my birthday, where I live, where I work, and I should know the same information about you.

2. It has to be a verifiable necessity. Maybe like your kid accidentally got off at the wrong bus stop and he or she is calling from the pay phone of an hourly motel in the bad part of town. Or maybe your dog got hit by a car and the vet needs to put it down but will wait until you get there to say goodbye.

3. If you’re driving an appreciable distance, you won’t be a dick and return the car without gas.

4. Full acceptance that you get to borrow the beater, not the fun car.

5. Knowledge that if you break my trust once, you don’t get another opportunity.

And even in these circumstances, I will still always offer to drive them myself if I am able. One less thing to worry about. When I first started dating my girlfriend, she had several friends and acquaintances (without cars) that she would just toss the keys to. I told her numerous times how bad of an idea it was, and was met with, “Oh it’s okay. I know them well enough.” Except apparently for her neighbor that was using her car to go to his dealer’s house to by oxycodone (or maybe oxycontin...oxykitten? I don’t know). After that, it became much easier to convince her to be wary.

Mthew_M > SteveLehto
05/05/2016 at 09:30

Yay living in an overly litigious society where absolutely no matters of legality make any practical sense!

Wish I had the time/ability to watch your video, but I’m one of those in the situation where ‘I could sit here and read a novel, but watching a 3 minute video is out of the question’ types. It would probably just piss me off and make me hate everyone even worse than the punk with the LED bar on the front of his busted Civic weaving through traffic on my way to work this morning (it’s a very shaky combination of personal property respect and self preservation that keeps me from busting those out in parking lots), so it’s probably for the best.

shop-teacher > Nooly
05/05/2016 at 09:31

I do the same thing with my truck. “No, you cannot borrow my truck. Yes, I will help you move.”

OPPOsaurus WRX > SteveLehto
05/05/2016 at 09:35

drive a manual!! that will solve your problem 99% of the time

-Can I borrow your car?

-Can you drive stick?

-then I guess you can;t borrow it.

SteveLehto > jimz
05/05/2016 at 09:36

You have to ask them if you can strike it out. Cross it out and both sides initial. But they probably won’t let you. Then you go someplace else.

SteveLehto > HamburgerHusky
05/05/2016 at 09:37

WE HAVE A WINNER!

(There is no prize. That underwear was your prize.)

SteveLehto > pandesal
05/05/2016 at 09:38

You’d have to argue they had gone beyond the scope of the consent you had granted. You could win that but it would be costly (or at least a pain in the ass).

Hoy! Lip buddy pawnch! > SteveLehto
05/05/2016 at 09:38

My solution is pretty simple and probably 80% effective. Drive a manual.

High Road > SteveLehto
05/05/2016 at 09:39

I drive a new, fairly expensive truck, and you’d be surprised how many people ask to borrow it. I realize it’s a truck, but it’s not that kind of truck. No one understand...even my wife mockingly suggested I buy a beater truck just for other people to borrow.

SteveLehto > Mthew_M
05/05/2016 at 09:40

It’s not necessarily the litigiousness of the society (if that even is a word) but that the liability does not go the way many people think.

TractorPillow > HamburgerHusky
05/05/2016 at 09:40

That's horrific, but as a married man, all too believable.

SteveLehto > Hoy! Lip buddy pawnch!
05/05/2016 at 09:40

Agreed.

SteveLehto > OPPOsaurus WRX
05/05/2016 at 09:41

And if they say “Yes,” you say - “The clutch is getting a bit wonky and I need to take it in right away. I don’t want the car to strand you.”

Karfreek > SteveLehto
05/05/2016 at 09:41

I know many of you think I am paranoid but I am just an attorney. And we tend to be a bit on the careful side.

My wife is an attorney. 80% of her attorney friends are careful folk. The other 20% are the poster children for YOLO. LOL. It just makes me laugh sometimes.

*the above stats were completely made up estimates.

TractorPillow > SteveLehto
05/05/2016 at 09:42

Steve, thinking of consigning a car with a place that seems reputable and has good reviews (several friends recommend and have had good experiences). That being said, anything to look out for specifically? Seems like a good article idea too!

SteveLehto > High Road
05/05/2016 at 09:42

I know guys who have lent their fancy trucks to knuckleheads who did things like haul bricks in the unlined bed. Other people will rarely respect your vehicle as much as you do.

SteveLehto > TractorPillow
05/05/2016 at 09:43

I am not too familiar with consignments. Never dealt with them legally. Is this a classic/collector car or just a used car?

Wil Haginen > SteveLehto
05/05/2016 at 09:46

This is oddly coincidental. Two days ago, a family friend asked if they could borrow my pickup truck. Until this podcast, I was usually very generous with letting friends borrow my pickup truck. You know, it’s a Texas thing, and just a neighborly gesture if your buddy needs to move some stuff. This particular family friend, however, I had to decline, because I knew she would drive around town with her kids in the bed of the pickup.

I declined, because I was worried for her kids. I never actually thought I could be held liable if anything happened to her kids. Once again, Mr. Lehto, you opened my eyes to the differences between how I think the world operates, and how it actually operates.

da_Bird > HamburgerHusky
05/05/2016 at 09:48

The right buyer might have given you an extra hundred bucks if you left it in there.

SteveLehto > Wil Haginen
05/05/2016 at 09:49

One more thing I had not thought about! And you’re right. Kid falls out of the bed and someone will be wondering - “Isn’t that what the insurance is for?” That is, YOUR insurance.

Wil Haginen > SteveLehto
05/05/2016 at 09:51

Steve, on a personal note, I managed to finagle a job interview in the SE Michigan area (actually pretty close to your office in Southfield). If it all works out, would love to buy you a drink sometime. Least I could do for all the legal advice you’ve provided.

SteveLehto > Wil Haginen
05/05/2016 at 09:53

Absolutely. Let me know how it goes and if you get the job.

GoesLikeHell > Nooly
05/05/2016 at 09:55

I like to keep a parts car parked on my trailer, when someone asks to borrow it I just say sure, but you’ll need to help me finish parting out the junker on it. That usually weeds out most people asking to use it. Of course that parts car rolls really nice and I can unload it in 2 min to use the trailer myself or help a good friend or family member.

Just got tired of it coming back with a bent axle, crumpled fenders, broken taillights etc. All with a promise to fix it, but they never follow through on that.

200 Touring > SteveLehto
05/05/2016 at 09:56

I’m an asshole, only people besides myself who drive my vehicles were my Parents (when Mom was capable of driving, medical issues keep her out of.my stuff now) and my Sister have been dealer techs and oil change jockeys, or the people at the place I’ve bought tires through. My current 200 (283hp in a 3600lbs car) as well as the Lebaron (146 turbocharged hp in a 280lbs car) I used to own were know to produce violent levels of torque steer and if you weren’t ready for that and the hell that either car was capable of unleashing when hammered , there would be a surprise waiting for you. My Jeep isn’t bad, but as it got older and the brakes wore out, the less I trusted other people not to be able to safely drive it, at least if it was family, they were used to if from Dad’s last XJ that you had to plannout your stops a day in advance, anybody else would park in the back of somebody else’s vehicle.....and probably an expensive one to boot!

jimz > SteveLehto
05/05/2016 at 09:56

thank you sir!

Paullubbock > SteveLehto
05/05/2016 at 09:56

I have two levels of borrow deterrence. One I say no and two, all my vehicles are manual so most people don’t even bother because they don’t know how to drive them and they are less likely to be stolen.

Wil Haginen > jimz
05/05/2016 at 09:57

I dealt with this back in November. I was polite and firm, and told the dealer that I wouldn’t agree to the arbitration clause. There was some back and forth and some hemming and hawing, but ultimately the dealer agreed to strike it out. In this case, “striking it out” was easy enough, as it was a separate standalone document.

jimz > Wil Haginen
05/05/2016 at 09:57

put the word out and we can have a Detroit area mini-meet :)

Wil Haginen > jimz
05/05/2016 at 09:58

Definitely.

jimz > TractorPillow
05/05/2016 at 09:59

for one, I’d look at the documents they provide to see who is responsible for the car while they have it.

Drew8MR > jimz
05/05/2016 at 09:59

I learned that lesson after a buddy took my 68 Mustang on a Taco Bell run because I was parked at the end of the driveway. Made it 2 blocks, punched it out of a corner straight through a lightpole. You know how much a light pole costs? Bastard.

Mthew_M > SteveLehto
05/05/2016 at 09:59

But, it just doesn’t make any logical sense. Where does the line stop? If you do one of those overnight test-drive things, does the same liability apply to the dealer and the salesperson? If I’m liable for providing the car, how about my company? If they didn’t give me the money to buy it, there wouldn’t have been a car for me to loan out. How about GM, BMW, Land Rover - if they hadn’t made it, then my friend couldn’t have used it for bad! It just frustrates me, because it’s yet another of those ‘no good deed goes unpunished’ type of things, except this time it’s fully sanctioned. It just seems like if Smith&Wesson can give people guns and not get charged with murder, I should be able to lend a friend in need (who has a license and insurance - I’m not advocating for gross negligence) one of my cars and not have to worry about them maybe flipping a lid and going on some sort of killing spree with it.

Off to go look and see what crazy laws NC has on the books tying me into what other people are doing.

Also, devils advocate and since you are a lawyer - if I lend someone a pen, and they go and stab someone to death with it, do I get looped into that somehow? Or is it just cars (it always seems to be just cars)?

TractorPillow > SteveLehto
05/05/2016 at 10:00

02 Viper GTS. A car that attracts nothing but flakes and dreamers. Tired of dealing with them. Wish I could trade it in on something, but there's nothing I'm currently interested in. I’m deploying in a few weeks and my wife doesn’t want to take care of it while I’m gone and I have been trying to sell for a while.

ImNotVeryCleverEither > SteveLehto
05/05/2016 at 10:04

As an old, I don’t really do the podcast/video thing, but props for the Charger 500 photo

SteveLehto > Mthew_M
05/05/2016 at 10:04

It actually makes complete sense. They want all cars to be insured. The logical person to insure it is the owner. The person in control of the car is - THE OWNER. So, we make the owner liable and then expect the owner to act accordingly.

The pen example is silly. A better example would be if I lent you a gun and you went and shot someone with it. What then?

SteveLehto > ImNotVeryCleverEither
05/05/2016 at 10:05

You’re the first to notice. Thanks.

Turbineguy: Nom de Zoom > ImNotVeryCleverEither
05/05/2016 at 10:09

Yep, those flush headlights sure stick out.. so to speak

Country Mac's Ocular Patdown > HamburgerHusky
05/05/2016 at 10:10

You could make good money selling that in Japan.

E92M3 > SteveLehto
05/05/2016 at 10:10

I wouldn’t let my best friend, or even my sister borrow my car.

Country Mac's Ocular Patdown > SteveLehto
05/05/2016 at 10:12

Are valet companies not insured separately?

SteveLehto > Country Mac's Ocular Patdown
05/05/2016 at 10:13

You hope they are. The question is: Whose policy will be the primary for claims made against the car? This will vary from state to state.

smalleyxb122 > Nooly
05/05/2016 at 10:15

I borrowed a friend’s trailer once (well more than once, but only one of the times is noteworthy).

Towing my car on the tollway, the removable fender let go, flew trough the air, and was hit by a Cadillac. Fortunately for the Cadillac driver, he was in a bit of a convoy, and the others were able to flag me down.

When the cop showed up, I was expecting a ticket, but was issued no citation, but my insurance was on the hook to fix the Caddy’s bumper.

The trailer’s owner and I shared fault, so he and I split the cost of a new fender.

davinp > SteveLehto
05/05/2016 at 10:19

Google Play Music has added podcasts, so please add your podcast to it. We no longer to use iTunes and Android users would prefer to use Google Play Music instead of iTunes.

Sjubbdubb > SteveLehto
05/05/2016 at 10:20

While being a student, I was planning a hunting trip with some friends, but was too tired to follow through. So they borrowed my ‘71 Volvo 145.

They came back with the exhaust in the trunk. It wasn’t exactly a shiny exhaust made of medieval chastity belts, but I’ve never really stopped wondering how much jumping was involved.

SteveLehto > davinp
05/05/2016 at 10:30

It’s there. Search for Lehto’s Law. I got it up there this past week.

ifonlyihadthemoney > SteveLehto
05/05/2016 at 10:56

Kinja'd!!!

Manwich - now Keto-Friendly > SteveLehto
05/05/2016 at 10:59

I agree completely... the #1 reason to not lend my car is liability.

Yep... If someone asked to borrow my car, I would turn around and ask them if they’re on my insurance policy.

Obviously the answer would be ‘no’.

But then I would ask what they need and why they can’t spend $20-$30/day renting a car.

I haven’t had that problem because I drive a cheap old car with a manual transmission.

Though that’s gonna change once my kids gets their driver’s licenses.

Umrguy42: Add $5 for shipping and handling > SteveLehto
05/05/2016 at 11:00

To follow on, from some other times this has come up on Jalopnik et al, what if I wanted to *add* a section saying essentially “no stickers/magnets/decals advertising the dealer, and if they’re there at delivery, the dealer has to remove them or I can refuse the delivery” - where/how would be the best place to add that in? Hand-written somewhere, bringing an extra page for all parties to sign, what would you recommend?

Manwich - now Keto-Friendly > SteveLehto
05/05/2016 at 11:11

He might be able to sell the the underwear online.

Some people pay good money for that type of thing!

LOL

Mthew_M > SteveLehto
05/05/2016 at 11:16

I guess it’s not so much the financial liability that gets me as the potential for criminal liability, as you mentioned in your other article. I’m assuming that, depending on the state’s laws, you could sue your ‘friend’ for damages, if you weren’t able to reach an agreement to recoup damages they caused you by their stupidity. I’ve also always thought car insurance sort of missed the point a little bit, as it seems to me it would make more sense for liability insurance to be on a driver (i.e. you’re insured for $500k property, $1mil bodily injury no matter what you’re driving (excepting commercial vehicles, which would be corporately insured), with cost of course adjusted for your primary car) and collision/comprehensive on a car, but that probably has its own inherent problems of some sort, and it’s not like our system is in any danger of being changed.

I did find this on my state’s Dept. of Insurance auto coverage brochure, which seems to indicate that your cars insurance may actually carry over to someone else’s vehicle:

“My daughter is going away to college. Can my company force me to keep her on the policy if I want to remove her? Yes, your company still must cover her as long as her permanent residence is your home. Even if she doesn’t have a vehicle with her, your policy covers her for liability when she may borrow a vehicle at school and when at home on visits. ”

And, I saw where, in NC, if you borrow someone elses vehicle while yours is disabled, the drivers insurance can be made responsible through uninsured motorist coverage.

Would you say it’s better to contact an attorney or a local insurance agent to get some more clarity on this?

SteveLehto > Umrguy42: Add $5 for shipping and handling
05/05/2016 at 11:21

Or just inspect the car at delivery and tell them to remove the crap. (And warn them in advance about it).

Mike Fresh, Toomp and Hop > SteveLehto
05/05/2016 at 11:21

Ha, this makes me think of using my uncles cars in the 80's, he was always cool will letting me drive his Corvette but he would always tell me “If the cops call saying you wrecked it, I’m gonna say you stole it.”

SteveLehto > Mthew_M
05/05/2016 at 11:23

This whole area is confusing and it changes from state to state. An insurance agent should be able to explain it but an attorney can get you the ugly details (probably with examples).

PS9 > SteveLehto
05/05/2016 at 11:25

I live in the same state that convicted a guy for MURDER WITH A LIFE SENTENCE over this same issue. Everyone I know knows better than to ask for the keys given that.

Friends: hey PS9, we can borrow your car, right?
Me:

Kinja'd!!!

Leonard1818 > SteveLehto
05/05/2016 at 11:46

Hey Steve, for this instance, let’s say Wil had lent the truck and said family friend put her kids back there and one fell out. Wil’s insurance would have to pay the medical bills, correct? Does Wil’s insurance even TRY to get the friends insurance to pay up? I seem to recall my insurance covering me if I were to mess up in someone else’s car. Is that only if the other person doesn’t have insurance or doesn’t have enough insurance that mine kicks in? Maybe this is outside of your area... but I’m curious how it all works.

SteveLehto > Leonard1818
05/05/2016 at 11:50

I am not sure how it works in his state. But in some states, you are right - they might look to the mother’s insurance IF SHE HAS ANY. If not, then it’s on him and his insurance. But even with a seemingly clear-cut answer, you will often see insurance companies fighting over this - trying to get the other side’s insurance to pay.

foxbody > SteveLehto
05/05/2016 at 11:51

Things you learn the hard way:

Someone borrows your car, they have their own car insurance. They end up totaling your car: it goes on YOUR insurance.

That seem right? I’m not sure that seems right.

RideOrange > SteveLehto
05/05/2016 at 11:52

Another informative and interesting post, thanks Steve!

On another somewhat related note - give me your thoughts on this if you get a happen to get a chance -

A few years ago I sold a car to a guy, had him meet at my credit union as I still owed a small amount of money on it. He paid cash, the credit union released the title and I had him sign a bill of sale, also had him fill out the info on the title and got a photocopy of it and had someone at the credit union notarize it. However I did not go with him to the DMV to transfer the title (stupid I know). I figured I had all his info, drivers license #, etc., a signed and notarized bill of sale, and it was still a decent car with some value to it (a 5 year old Mercedes) so I stupidly trusted he’d get the title transferred since he did pay for the car and would need to insure it.

A few weeks later I get a call from the Sheriff’s office saying that if I want to come get any personal belongings from my car in the impound lot I had to do it within the next week. ??? So I ask what he’s talking about, and they tell me the car was seized and the driver arrested in some type of drug bust. I told him I sold the car, and had all the info for the guy I sold it to and asked if it was that person that got busted. They wouldn’t tell me any more info on it, just that the title was never transferred so the car was still mine as far as they would have known, and that’s all they would tell me. I never followed up on it or did anything, so I assume the car went to a police auction at some point after that.

But I had wondered if I could of legally tried to get the car back?

I didn’t, as obviously I did get paid for it, and I didn’t want to get involved with getting a car back that apparently some drug dealer had been using, in case he found out somehow that I had the car again that he had paid me for. But would there have been a way I could have gotten the seized car back when it was used in a crime that I had nothing to do with?

Mustangbear > High Road
05/05/2016 at 12:06

I recently had someone ask if she could borrow my truck to tow her father's large boat . When I asked "why my truck?" she responded, "because my dad on't let me use his." Unbelievable.

DonKeybals > SteveLehto
05/05/2016 at 12:13

This is exactly why I can’t stand to hand over the key to a valet, at least not in my own car. Aside from the potential abuse, if one of these asshats gets into an accident, I’m on the hook. That and handing over the keys to a M3 to a 19-year-old pimple faced moron is like giving a pyro a book of matches.

When my friends and family ask to borrow my car, I tend to gauge them by their financial status and level of responsibility. My friends who are doing well, and I have known since high school, sure. Not a problem. They know to treat my car with care. My mom or my sister, not a chance in hell.

the 1969 Dodge Charger Guy > SteveLehto
05/05/2016 at 12:14

Aaaaaahhhhhhhhh!!!!! A restored ‘69 Charger 500, a car with only a production run of 500 cars (guess what the name “500" refers to) out of the 89,000 Chargers produced that year; and it’s parked between two hulking SUVs?!?!? WTF?

I can just see the goober SUV owners whunking the Charger’s sides as they swing the SUVs’ doors wide open. So was the 500 owner that crazy or that trusting?

Leonard1818 > SteveLehto
05/05/2016 at 12:21

I figured as much... Thanks!

D-Fizzle > OPPOsaurus WRX
05/05/2016 at 12:22

That’s why I love the Miata. Sure you can borrow my stiff suspension Miata with no AC in the Atlanta summer. You’re cool with driving stick in stop and go traffic uphill while sweating like a pig under the hot sun right?

SteveLehto > the 1969 Dodge Charger Guy
05/05/2016 at 12:28

Production #s were closer to 392. They were SUPPOSED to make 500 but who’s counting?!

This was at a winged car event and I suspect the other cars were driven by other owners so everyone there was on their best behavior.

Zeniff > SteveLehto
05/05/2016 at 12:49

Amen. I remember my parents lending their van to some folks at church, they returned it with the carpet torn to heck (“Sorry, our dog did that. Here’s your keys”). Another time they lent it to some lady who was driving a bunch of youth to some activity. Just remember her driving it not-so-gently and doing 45+ in a 25MPH through town with a full load of kids, just because. And then there was the time that they probably shouldn’t have lent the van to my teenage sister (she still lived under their roof at the time), whose idea of a good time was swerve down the highway, with a van full of cheerleader friends, while sticking her head out the window, and well, that was the end of that van....nobody died or got seriously injured, miraculously. After seeing the trouble their ambitious goodwill got them in, I hate the idea of letting anyone drive my vehicles.

Zeniff > Mthew_M
05/05/2016 at 13:03

Been out of the insurance field a while, but generally speaking, the coverage follows the vehicle and is primary. Even if the driver has their own insurance. Example: I own a Chevette and you own a Corvette, we both have our own insurance coverage on our respective vehicles, and you give me permission to borrow your Corvette. Let’s say you also know that in the past year I was cited for wreckless driving + 2 DUI’s. I get drunk and wreck your car and cause property damage to someone else’s car. And I am injured as well as people in the other vehicle. Typically, your insurance is primary and will pay for damages, including the other party’s property damage + their bodily injury bills as well as the damage to your Corvette + my own medical bills, if you have that type of coverage on your vehicle. My insurance will kick in once your insurance coverages have been exhausted. And if it can be reasonbly proven that you should have known I was unfit to drive your Corvette, you could be held liable for civil damages as well.

Perhaps in this scenario, your carrier could pursue costs against my own carrier after everything above is worked out, but my experience is that subrogation doesn’t go very far.

Thanks for letting me drive the Corvette.

the 1969 Dodge Charger Guy > SteveLehto
05/05/2016 at 13:05

My bad. I should’ve wrote “with what was supposed to be a production run of 500 cars to meet NASCAR requirements”.

SteveLehto > the 1969 Dodge Charger Guy
05/05/2016 at 13:14

No problem. It is a confusing topic. There are similar discrepancies with the wings. We THINK They built enough to homologate but the numbers can be hard to pin down.

Istillcallitshea > High Road
05/05/2016 at 14:14

My father in law recently asked if I knew anyone with a trailer I could borrow to help him move his ride on mower from his house to the repair shop. I have a friend with a small utility trailer, so I arranged to borrow it. He lives a few towns over, and when I got there, the light hookup didn’t match up with my SUV. I went back to my father in law to get his truck, a full size Toyota Tundra, that had the right hookup. He wouldn’t let me take it, even though I drive his truck all the time. He hemmed and hawed and finally said “That’s a long trip. It’s a big strain on the truck.” Basically, he had no problem putting such a big “strain” on my car to pull his mower, but his full size pickup was too delicate for the job.

GreenN_Gold > TractorPillow
05/05/2016 at 14:58

A lot of dealers will buy your car even if you’re not trading it on something, but you might not get the $$$ you want out of it. You can still have dealers compete over it though, see who wants it more.

High Road > Istillcallitshea
05/05/2016 at 15:00

sheesh

GreenN_Gold > Turbineguy: Nom de Zoom
05/05/2016 at 15:02

I knew those didn’t look right.

TheRealBicycleBuck > SteveLehto
05/05/2016 at 15:15

In high school, I let a teacher borrow my truck to move some set pieces from the middle school to the high school. The teacher let a student drive the truck while he sat in the back. The student took a corner too fast and the teacher fell out of my truck. We were all fortunate that the only damage was a skinned noggin and a brutal case of embarrassment.

I never let anyone borrow my truck again.

GTIanZ > SteveLehto
05/05/2016 at 15:16

Been driving for 20+ years. My one and only accident happened while in college when I borrowed my roommates car.

My roommates insurance ended up paying for the damage - likely increased his rates as well.

Agreed.... Never let anyone drive your car!

TractorPillow > GreenN_Gold
05/05/2016 at 15:17

Yep, fully aware, but they offer 7-10k less than my bottom dollar. No dealer really wants a 14 year old viper unless you're trading in. I've boyght and sold about 8 cars in the last 6 years and always made more than I paid. This one is just much tougher.

UltArc > SteveLehto
05/05/2016 at 15:40

Tran-script, tran-script, TRAN-SCRIPT, TRAN! SCRIPT! :)

SteveLehto > UltArc
05/05/2016 at 16:00

Read the article I linked to in the piece. Read it out loud in a funny voice (and that’s pretty much the podcast).

GreenN_Gold > TractorPillow
05/05/2016 at 16:16

Got it.

Dead_Elvis, Inc. > 200 Touring
05/05/2016 at 16:47

the Lebaron (146 turbocharged hp in 280 lbs car)

I had no idea the LeBaron has such a great power:weight ratio.

Seriously though, if you really think either of those has “violent” torque steer, you should probably stick with AWD.

200 Touring > Dead_Elvis, Inc.
05/05/2016 at 17:31

oops, that should have been 2800lbs, I was tired when I posted it though. I’m used to torque steer, so it’s no big deal to me, but get somebody who’s used to rwd or a complete lack of torque in a fwd, they think the car is defective. I had one guy that had owned a 4cyl early 90's Accord drive that Lebaron after s few tweeks and it seems that it cause 2 code browns for him, what ever it did when he drove it caused the firsr incident, and judging by the look on his face when he told me he took it on that test drive, he was about to go code brown a second time just mentioning the drive!

Mike > SteveLehto
05/05/2016 at 17:53

I have a 1969 Dodge Charger now. Mine cost me a lot more than $300 :P (four years ago).

I, also, do not let anyone drive it. To be fair, it does not run. But when it did, I wouldn’t let anyone drive it either. Though, it ran so poorly, it took 98% of your concentration to drive it. Definitely one of those “only you can drive this car” cars.

But once it is running again?.... I still will never let anyone drive it.

Chan - Mid-engine with cabin fever > SteveLehto
05/05/2016 at 18:13

Renting a car is so easy these days. Not worth the headache. I don’t recall the last time I’ve ever had to lend my car to anyone, but hypothetically I would only trust immediate family on a case-by-case basis.

Need a car for a week? Go rent one.

ronmler3 > Mthew_M
05/05/2016 at 19:12

I like how you managed to stick a mindless anti-gun mini-rant in the middle of that!

ronmler3 > HamburgerHusky
05/05/2016 at 19:43

Hasn’t she ever heard of a plastic shopping bag?

Mthew_M > ronmler3
05/05/2016 at 19:48

Anti-gun rant? Wow, you’re ignorant.

Here, let me have another anti-gun rant: ‘Gun’. Because, apparently just bringing it up is all it takes.